Read to p. 222 in Beloved (to the page break at the top-ends at “holding his wrists between his knees and looking red-eyed”)
Annotate for passages that are especially significant, but focus on Stamp’s perspectives, since he is, in many ways, an objective observer in this story.
Blog Post #5: choose one passage, from Stamp’s perspective, that either tells you something different about a character (Sethe, Paul, Denver, Baby Suggs or Beloved), or affirms what you already thought about a character. Write out the passage, with page #, and explain how it affirms or goes against what you previously thought about that person.
Stamp’s perspective affirms my thoughts about Sethe’s protection of her kids. I believe that Sethe committed extreme actions by trying to kill her kids, but at the same time I understand her, as she was trying to protect her kids from the difficult life she had. I believe that suffering once is better than a lifetime of suffering, which is what her kids would have to go through. Stamp shows how he regrets his actions because in the beginning of part 2 he starts feeling guilty for ruining her possibility of obtaining happiness with Paul D. Moreover, he keeps feeling so bad that he cannot stop thinking about this issue, “ maybe he should have left it alone; maybe Sethe would have gotten around to telling him herself; maybe he was not the high-minded Soldier of Christ he thought he was, but an ordinary, plain meddler…” (170). In this example we can clearly see how he begins doubting his worth. Just like Stamp, Sethe keeps thinking she did the right thing by trying to kill her kids but her actions continue to haunt her. By handing over his wife to his master’s son, Stamp helps justify Sethe’s actions because she just wanted to protect her kids like he did with his wife. They both torture themselves in different ways. Sethe tries to kill her kids and stay alive while Joshua renames himself to Stamp and helps others as a way to help himself even though he is never satisfied. Both characters have insecurities.
ReplyDeleteWhen reading part two of the novel, Stamp's perspective confirms my opinion of how all the characters take responsibility for actions that are completely out of their control. For example, I believe that Stamp does the same thing because he feels responsible for Sethe killing the baby and attempting to kill the three other kids because he sees himself as a paternal figure to Sethe and the kids. However, he does not have to take responsibility for anything because Sethe's action have nothing to do with Stamp, which shows masochism in these characters because they take responsibilities that make their lives unhappy. When ready Stamp's perspective I begin to see this type of behavior with Baby Suggs because in part one of the novel we learn that Baby Suggs is really happy at 124, but after the incident occurs with Sethe she decides to lay down in her bed and do nothing, Stamp explains, "My marrow is tired, he thought. I been tired all my days, bone tired, but now it's in the marrow. Must be what Baby Suggs felt when she lay down and thought color for the rest of her life" (208). Therefore, this shows how after Sethe committed the crime Baby took responsibility and felt that it was her fault. However, why did she take responsibility? I think she did this because she does not want to let herself be happy and relates with Sethe about her children that she has no clue where they are. Moreover, Baby Suggs was having a great time and was perceived as a strong holy woman at 124, but believed that she didn't deserve it because she abandoned her kids, just like Sethe did and decided to fill her life with sadness to punish her selfishness.
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ReplyDeleteAfter reading Stamp’s perspective it made me think about Baby Sugg’s in a different way. One passage from Stamp’s perspective that told me something different about Baby Suggs is on page 211. In the passage, Stamp tried to get Baby Suggs to come back to the Clearing. Stamp believed Baby Suggs did not come back to the Clearing was because of the violence that happened at her house and that she had given up on God. This was not the case. Baby Suggs stated that she did not return because “they (the white men) came into my yard” (211). Her statement and actions made it seem like “the whitefolks won” (211) and she is surrendering to them. This statement goes against what I previously thought about Baby Suggs. I thought Baby Suggs was a strong woman who stood up to anything. In the passage, it seemed like Baby Suggs is stepping down and letting other people win. Stamp is also shocked by the statement Baby Suggs made, but understood why she has not returned to the Clearing. Stamp came to the conclusion that “the whitefolks had tired her [Baby Suggs] out at last” (212) and that Baby Suggs is “tired” of fighting with them. After reading Stamp’s perspective about Baby Suggs, it made me think maybe she is not this strong and powerful woman after all. If she was a strong and powerful woman, then should continue to go to the Clearing and not let “whitefolks” control her actions.
ReplyDeleteAfter reading this part of the novel in Stamp Paid's perspective, I believe my opinion of Sethe has changed. This passage exposed the self-doubts, insecurities and other levels to Stamp Paid that I was unaware of in the beginning. I believe him to be a secondary character but his instinctual anxiety to want power and respect create a complicated mindset that Stamp Paid withholds. However, through his thoughts I am now able to see Sethe's actions as a mother to be less animalistic and more in a light of independence. On page 202, he states "Her [Sethe] outrageous claims, her self-sufficiency seemed to demand it, and Stamp Paid, who had not felt a trickle of means his whole adult life, wondered if some of the "pride goeth before a fall" expectations of the townsfolk had rubbed off on him". Stamp Paid describes Sethe to be "outrageous" for her children, as the class has recognized, but he also chooses to compliment her ability to rely on herself and be independent rather than be overly attached to the help from others. I previously thought of Sethe as a selfish mother who only raised her children to live through them as an extension of herself, and in this way, she is able to achieve her own desires and control her id. However, I no longer blame Sethe for her extreme actions for her kids and rather see them as an inevitable result from living in terror for her own life. Instead of seeing her actions as horrendous, it can be viewed as an uncontrollable reflex to her environment that she cannot be blamed for; in other words, a product of the environment she lives in.
ReplyDeleteFrom Stamp's perspective on Sethe's actions, it reaffirmed what I believed about Denver and how she projects her own needs onto Beloved in a form of altruism. When speaking about Denver, he describes himself as a savior, protecting her from the ramifications of Sethe's actions. He believes that "Even if Sethe could deal with the return of the spirit, Stamp knew her daughter couldn't. Denver needed somebody normal in her life" (200). In this way, it makes sense why Denver would be this way and why she hangs onto Beloved to the point where she completely breaks down from her absence. Stamp verified this idea that Sethe, no matter how strong she seemed, could not protect both of them from the spirit because she was not normal or mentally capable. Because of this abnormal upbringing, it makes sense that Denver would follow this example and project what she wanted from a mother onto Beloved and become overprotective. Through Stamp's perspective on the matter, it clarifies Denver's actions and overreactions.
ReplyDeleteStamp Paid's perspective of the novel has altered my perception of Denver's strength. Denver fills her void by mothering Beloved, in response to Beloved's need for care. Denver finds strength in feeling needed and appreciated, which blurred my understanding of Denver's true capacity for trauma and conflict. Stamp Paid realizes Denver's limits, "Even if Sethe could deal with the return of the spirit, Stamp didn't believe her daughter could. Denver needed somebody normal in her life" (200). I perceived Denver as strong, self-reliant, because that is what she needed to survive. However, I realize she is weak, still a child without the understanding of herself. She needs to be mothered before she can mother. The spirit's manifestation within Beloved has weakened Denver's already teetering strength. Sethe overestimates Denver's ability to cope with the hardships they experience and Stamp is the only one who has come to terms with the fact that Denver's abilities are limited.
ReplyDeleteMarcel Johnson
ReplyDeleteFink C - Band
4 - 15 - 15
“He knew the secrets of the Ohio River and its banks; empty houses and full; the best dancers, the worst speakers, those beautiful voices and those who could not carry a tune. There was nothing interesting between his legs, but he remembered when there had been” (passage pg 200 - 203)
Right away, as the chapter begins my view of Paul D was shifted through the observations of Stamp Paid. From this, Stamp portrays Paul D to be weak when so far in the novel Paul D tries to establish the role of the savior. Paul D’s attempt to be the savior is his own version of hysteria as his behavior is in association with trying to rebirth himself as masculine. Stamp’s observations of Paul D trying to reinvent his masculinity, helps to understand the reasoning behind him having sex with Beloved frequently before her death. A way for a man to show his masculinity is through sex and the dominance behind it, but when Stamp states “there was nothing interesting between his legs,” exemplifies Paul D failing at the one thing he should be able to do.
Reading from stamps perspective just affirmed what I thought about Seth. "'I made that song up', said Sethe. 'I made it up and sang it to my children. Nobody knows that song but me and my children.'" (207). Very similar to what we discussed in class the other day, Sethe is extending herself in to her children and just as Paul D says her "love is too thick". She wants full control over everything her children do and learn. Therefore with this simple song she even has to be the creator and singer in order for her children to hear it. This is definitely suffocating them, because they are not able to leave the control of their mother. Although Sethe has the iron eyes and the sword and shield, this comes to a disadvantage. She is over bearing to her children. This is very simply exemplified with this simple song that she creates for her children (and only her children).
ReplyDeleteThroughout Stamp's perception of Baby Suggs, my perception of her being courageous and a true believer of what she preached has changed. When we were first introduced to her background and her involvement in the community, I perceived her as a genuine motivator, someone that was self-secured in herself that she was able to use her inner strength to motivate others that could view themselves in confidence after slavery. Stamp's perspective reveals that she is quite the opposite as she feels guilty about somehow allowing the baby's murder to happen, something that was out of her control, as when Stamp questions her about why she has not gone to the Clearing he asks "You blaming God? That's what you doing" and she replies "I ain't..I'm saying they (white folks) came in my yard" (211). Baby Suggs here displays that she feels at fault for the murder and blames God for allowing the tragedy to happen, for not making her aware of what was about to happen as when Stamp says, "you punishing Him, ain't you" she replies, "not like He punish me" (211). This reveals that Baby Suggs is turning against her initial beliefs in God, contrary to what was one of her key characteristics, a firm believer that wanted to spread the Gospel and put her services to God. Instead, now she deprives Him of that by disconnecting herself. This kind of disconnection can be seen as projection as the anger she feels towards God, she places it unto herself by blaming herself for the murder, as she blames God for allowing her to not be aware of the white men. Additionally, by depriving God of her services, she is also depriving herself of recovery and enjoyment of what she does have, both meant to be forms of punishment. Clearly, this kind of self-punishment reveals a lack of genuine self-confidence.
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ReplyDelete"Every eighteen or twenty years her unlivable life would be interrupted by a short-lived glory?" (204) Stamp's
ReplyDeleteview affirms my belief that Sethe sees her happiness and enjoyment as selfish. This confirms my idea that her own pleasure interrupts her life. An interruption is the cessation of continuity and her happiness, which is a form of selfishness, disturbs the peace she feels living miserably. This disturbance creates superego anxiety, coming from the belief that she deserves to suffer. After all, she has been a slave to misfortune and the judgement she and others pass on herself for her entire life, making her believe that happiness interrupts this purpose and creates her guilt.
"When he picked her up in his arms, she looked to him like a girl, and he took the pleasure she would have knowing she didn't have to grind her hipbone anymore-that at last somebody carried her" (201).
ReplyDeleteIn this passage, Stamp is affirming something that I had already perceived about Baby Suggs, even though none of the other characters explicitly said anything. Baby Suggs was shown as this unbreakable, strong woman who dedicated her free life to trying to help other people. She saved people's lives and she taught people things, all the while never taking a moment for herself. She never said anything, but it's natural for a person who never does anything for themselves to want someone to take care of them. It's only through her death, as Stamp says, that she finally gets somebody to carry her- both emotionally and physically.
After reading the last section I feel like I learned more about Stamp and the way he veiws himself more than I did about any of the other character in the book. There is a passage where Stamp is doing some self reflecting and he is thinking about whether or not he did the rigt thing by telling Paul D about Sethe's past before she could tell him herself, and he mentions that, "maybe he was not the high-minded soldier of Christ that he thought he was" (200). I think here, Stamp begins to realize that he does not deserve to meddle in other pepole's lives. I feel like for the longest, Stamp believed he was worthy of such a role, and granted on by Christ himself, but now as he gets older he starts to believe that is not the case. Similar to how Baby Suggs lost her motivation and belief in doing greater things for others Stamp now goes throught that same realization here.
ReplyDeleteStamps perspective of Denver on pg 200 confirmed my previous idea of her. "Worrying Sethe and Denver with a pack of haunts he could hear from the road. Even if Sethe could deal with the return of the spirit stamp didn't believe her daughter could. Denver needed someone strong on her life". I always believed Denver was trying to find security in her life that is why she protects beloved. She needs to feel responsibility and someone to care for someone to ground her. He says she needs someone strong but really she needs someone to make her strong
ReplyDeleteWe can see from Stamps retelling of his conversation with Baby Suggs, while walking on the street, that Baby Suggs could not bare the weight of the Misery. I had got the impression while reading that Baby Suggs had the ability to look at situations in a stoic manner, not let them get to her, and to keep moving along, much like Sethe can do (or forces herself to). Stamp Paid even refers to Baby Suggs as the "mountain" to his "sky," something unmovable because of her faith.
ReplyDeleteThe interaction begins with him catching up to her on the street. He says " 'Listen here, girl,' ... ' you can't quit the Word!' " (209). They continue back and forth, Stamp stating " 'You blaming God,' ... 'That's what you doing.' ... 'You saying the whitefolks won? That what you saying?' 'I'm saying they came in my yard' " (211). After this, Baby Suggs goes to lie down in her bed. Stamp implies that this was the last straw, what broke Baby Suggs and began the last section of her life leading up to her death.
The whole time I thought Baby Suggs was able to make herself insusceptible, or at least very strong against bad occurrences, through her ability to help others and aid others at the Call ceremonies. But here we see her spirit sapped, the mountain starting to crumble. Perhaps she thinks that God has died due to the Misery. I never knew Baby Suggs would see her God die, or would let herself see her God die. I never knew it could affect her in such a way. It showed me her breaking point.
"Stamp Paid...so much that he looked too." (185)
ReplyDeleteThis passage further affirms my theory about Stamp's savior complex, and about how Stamp needs to keep Sethe's family safe. From the beginning, Stamp witnesses Sethe and Denver in tragic state in which he proceeds to take care of them. In the passage I picked, Stamp is chopping wood and watching Baby Suggs struggle to keep happy everyone at 124. This illuminates the fact that Stamp, while overwatching Baby Suggs, in fact, is watching over all of 124. Through the transitive property, Stamp then watches over all of 124.
"My marrow is tired...must be what Baby Suggs felt when she lay down and thought about color for the rest of her life. When she told him what her aim was, he thought she was ashamed and too shamed to say so" (209). Previous to this passage, I always had the assumption that Baby Suggs went into bed because she was sick, or realized that there was no saving all the freed slaves from their previous lives. Looking at her decision through Stamps perspective, I understand why she went to bed and why Stamp feels like doing the same thing. He explains briefly that he's tired, not just physically, but throughout his entire being; past his bones and into his marrow, Stamp is tired and wants to lay down for the rest of his life. He explains how this is what Baby Suggs felt when she did the same thing. I thought about the effects slavery had on both Baby Suggs and Stamp, the horrors they both have witnessed and suffered. How finally they were so worn out from all that life has handed them that the only logical action was to lay down in bed. Even Stamp says that when Baby Suggs told him, he thought she was ashamed. But maybe now he understands that it was brave of her, to finally do something for herself, to stop suffering and just relax. To rest her body and her mind, just as Stamp wishes to do now.
ReplyDeleteStamp Paid always feels personally responsible for the well being of everybody in the community. He almost has a Godly influence over the community as he oversees each member from their arrival to moments when they are in distress. Everybody seems to depend on him in every moment of their lives. He finds this to be his purpose and
ReplyDeleteAlthough he praises God and Jesus, he enjoys this stature. However, he once shared this status with Baby Suggs who would essentially preach to the group (although she claimed she was too ignorant for preaching). He feels indebted to Baby and continue to honor her family. For this reason, he feels so guilty for telling Paul D about the murder. He was faced with a dilemma: He either had to fulfill his duties as an informant to the community members (in this case, Paul D) or stay loyal to Sethe and by extension, Baby Suggs. "Deeper and more painful than his belated concern for Denver or Sethe, scorching his soul like a silver dollar in a fool's pocket, was the memory of Baby Suggs--the mountain to his sky" (201). He thrives on the community being open to him. This is why he takes 124's closed door very personally.
This chapter made me understand that all of the characters depend or have depended on Stamp in some way. He is very important to the identities of these people. I didn't realize how close he was to Baby Suggs. He was, by extension, family.
After reading Stamp's perspective, it interesting to see how the community has not changed. They have not only managed to exclude the people that have lived in 124, but relatively newcomer Paul D also bears mark in the community for his relationship with Sethe. I understand why Paul D left, but the idea that the community excludes him as if he had a part in Sethe's past is interesting. Stamp points out the disunity within the community when they don't offer Paul D a place to stay. "Can't nobody offer?" Which also adds to Stamp's own conscience and his guilt for becoming a stranger to a family he provided and Protected at one point.
ReplyDeleteMy opinion of Sethe changed after reading Stamp Paid's perspective of her. In the beginning of the novel, I viewed Sethe as a strong woman and mother who knows right from wrong and is constantly on the fight to protect her family (Denver). Stamp Paid's passage revealed that Sethe is not the strong iron-like woman Paul D describes her as. In reality, Sethe is very doubtful and insecure. Moreover, I've noticed that his views makes Sethe seem more like a human being and a regular mother struggling to find a safe haven for her family rather than animalistic characteristics that she has been described with. Sethe's "outrageous claims [and] her self sufficiency seemed to demand" (202) something that was not shown in the beginning of the novel. Sethe is no longer viewed as the selfish woman who only cares for herself and takes extreme actions when it comes to protecting her children. Stamp Paid, the "overseer" of 124 demonstrates that Sethe is a helpless woman that can't break away from her horrendous past due to slavery.
ReplyDelete"Had he not been there, chopping firewood, Sethe would have spread her baby brains on the planking." (201)
ReplyDeleteStamp sees Sethe as unstable and easily influenced, the complete opposite of Denver, Beloved, and Paul's perception of Sethe as strong and independent. Although we already found out that Sethe killed her kids, we still perceive her as all knowing and somehow still a caring mother. Beloved and Denver see no flaw in Sethe. Paul D. questions Beloved and Denver's devotion to Sethe, more so than Sethe's mental state. Stamp debunks these perceptions of Sethe and makes her out to be a hysterical, volatile mother whose way more dependent on public generosity than she appears.